Relationship-Driven Growth in 2025

In a business landscape increasingly driven by automation, the value of authentic human connection has never been higher. In a recent Avidly Talks episode, Johanna Sjölin, Marketing Director at Avidly HubSpot Solutions, joins Paul to share her approach to building meaningful client relationships that drive long-term success. They explore the power of empathy, emotional intelligence, and trust in creating partnerships—not just transactions. Johanna offers practical strategies for client engagement and reveals how strong relationships can turn satisfied customers into brand advocates. Let’s explore the key takeaways from this insightful conversation.

Listen to the Full Episode here

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Takeaways from this episode:

• Building strong client relationships requires a mix of strategy and empathy.
• Trust is foundational in client interactions and outperforms mere performance metrics.
• Creating soft goals helps in understanding client needs beyond just numbers.
• Emotional intelligence is crucial for navigating client relationships effectively.
• Professionalism should not overshadow the importance of personal connections.
• Every interaction with clients is an opportunity to negotiate and build trust.
• Consistency in delivering value is key to maintaining client relationships.
• Authenticity in communication fosters stronger connections with clients.
• Being human and present in interactions enhances relationship building.
• Setting high expectations from the beginning can lead to successful partnerships.

Chapters 

00:00 Introduction to Customer Relationships
02:59 The Secret Recipe for Client Happiness
06:01 Building Trust Through Empathy
09:11 Navigating Professionalism and Personal Connections
11:47 Emotional Intelligence in Client Management
14:47 Creating Advocates Through Strong Relationships
18:04 The Balance of Fun and Professionalism
21:01 Authenticity in Client Interactions

Building Stronger Client Relationships: Insights from Avidly Talks with Johanna Sjölin

In a world where digital tools and automation dominate much of the customer experience, human connection still holds unmatched power. In this episode of Avidly Talks, Johanna Sjölin, Marketing Director at Avidly HubSpot Solutions, explores what it really means to build and nurture strong client relationships.

Drawing from her experience in managing client partnerships, Johanna shares the mindset and strategies that help transform customer interactions from transactional to truly meaningful. From empathy to emotional intelligence, this conversation is packed with practical advice for marketers, account managers, and anyone who wants to cultivate trust and long-term loyalty.

1. Empathy: The Foundation of Trust

At the heart of every strong relationship is empathy. Johanna explains that truly understanding a client’s perspective—what they’re going through, their pressures, and their goals—builds a bridge of trust. That trust is what keeps clients engaged and invested in a long-term partnership.

Empathy isn't just about being nice—it’s about being present, listening well, and showing up with genuine care for the client’s success.

2. Balancing Personal & Professional Boundaries

Strong relationships are human, but they also need structure. Johanna emphasizes the importance of finding the right balance between being friendly and being professional. Too much focus on either side can weaken the relationship—either by losing credibility or by making interactions feel too transactional.

The key lies in consistency: setting clear expectations, delivering on promises, and always communicating with respect.

3. Emotional Intelligence in Client Management

One of the standout themes of the conversation is emotional intelligence (EQ). Johanna highlights how EQ enables marketers and client managers to read the room, adapt their communication style, and defuse difficult situations with grace. Being emotionally intelligent helps foster deeper understanding, especially when navigating conflict or change.

4. Turning Clients into Advocates

A great client relationship doesn’t just lead to renewals—it creates brand advocates. Johanna outlines how trust, transparency, and results-driven communication can encourage clients to become vocal supporters of your brand. Advocates don’t just stick around—they promote, refer, and expand your presence in their networks.

5. Authenticity Is the X-Factor

In a landscape full of polished presentations and templated outreach, authenticity stands out. Johanna reminds us that people don’t want to work with brands—they want to work with people. Bringing your true self to the relationship helps build stronger emotional connections and makes your brand more memorable.

Conclusion: Clients Are Partners, Not Transactions

Johanna’s insights serve as a valuable reminder: building great client relationships isn't just about delivering a service—it's about creating partnerships rooted in trust, empathy, and mutual respect.

For marketing and client-facing teams, it’s time to move beyond the checklist and lean into human connection. When you treat your clients like people—not just projects—you open the door to long-term success and meaningful collaboration.

Transcript:

Josefine (00:28.414)
In this episode, we've got Johanna Sjölin, which is the marketing director of Avidy HubSpot Solutions. She's the queen of keeping customers happy. Her relationships with the clients is just next level. So we're going to want to pick her brain on how to succeed with that and how come most people don't get it. That is the intro. Get it. Yay.

Paul (00:53.207)
Okay, how are we doing Johanna?

Johanna (01:02.211)
Doing good. I mean, after that presentation, can't complain. No, doing really good. Sun is shining here in Stockholm today. Office is crowded. yeah. I like having humans around me.

Josefine (01:12.482)
I'm not in the office though.

Paul (01:15.391)
I thought it was snowing today.

Johanna (01:18.365)
Yeah, a little mix. A little snowing, a little sun.

Paul (01:20.073)
okay so your version of yeah it's nice and sunny today is shut down in the uk so good to know once again the weather experts showing us how it's and cool yeah we're here to talk about basically keeping customers happy josey right

Johanna (01:26.525)
Glasses have wool.

Josefine (01:43.724)
Yeah, so just start with what's the baseline of how come you've got such amazing relationships with all your clients? What's the?

Johanna (01:56.253)
What's the secret recipe? Well, I would say it's a mix of good strategy and a large portion of empathy. I mean, you need to really care about your clients. You need to really be interesting in them as humans, but also you need to have a really large portion on being professional as well. You cannot just come in and be a fun person.

Josefine (01:57.943)
Yes.

Johanna (02:23.855)
inviting them to birthday parties or music festivals as I tend to do once in a while. You also need to be good at what you're doing. It all starts there, I would say.

Josefine (02:38.35)
So how long does it take until you're ready to invite them to a birthday party?

Paul (02:42.561)
You

Johanna (02:43.709)
Not too long, I would say.

Josefine (02:47.502)
Do you have like the Johanna formula that you can like? Okay, yeah, it's approximately three and a half months.

Paul (02:47.713)
Do you have?

Johanna (02:50.493)
Yeah.

This is a typical thing I wouldn't add to my CRM and then, you know, have like a workflow that ping me that now, now this person is ready to be invited to your birthday party. I would rather go for like my gut feeling on this. But you need to start off with building trust. I'm a big advocate of creating soft goals, always, not just hard KPIs with your clients. You need to understand.

Josefine (02:59.918)
I'm

Johanna (03:23.581)
For example, I work a lot with CMOs, understanding their goals, pleasure and pain, like not only goals. For example, I had one CMO last year. Her goal was, or her salary was based on a commission or getting a bonus if she reached this amount of leads and also this amount of...

event attendees. So that was our biggest focus. Another super typical soft goal is for a CMO to be able to show numbers to the board. The board doesn't know what numbers they want to see. They just want to see that the marketing creates ROI. Yeah, so understanding that, helping the client reach their bonus is also a big part of building trust.

Josefine (04:12.91)
.

Paul (04:21.921)
how would you what what would you classes more of a firm call or kp ike's those still like number targets at the end of the day those ones on

Johanna (04:32.125)
There are a number of targets, but when you're framing it as a soft goal, you're understanding the milestones you need to take to get there. And also it's a lot part of how you communicate directly to that person. Like we need to do this and that because of that. You build a mutual trust, you have the mutual interest, so to speak. It's not...

Paul (04:58.569)
nice there's a bit of the why behind it as well yeah

Johanna (05:01.785)
Yeah, exactly.

So blend of strategy and empathy, I would say.

Paul (05:10.393)
yeah, jumped in there Josie.

Josefine (05:12.706)
No, no, that was good.

Paul (05:16.151)
i want to be why why do the words it not so to set the soft goals is is a way of connecting with with the cost of nothing and and it's more interesting missus is that the buying to like we get that bone she get to take from the holiday that wanted to do really implying that disabled sectors actually confined

ways to make the metrics more enticing uh... why why why else do you strike a connection with the customs and why do you believe that that's important people to do and not just treated as a transaction which is still is book making it more than that

Johanna (06:01.593)
Exactly. It's, it is still a transaction, but dressed like in a soft call and it creates discussions during our calls. Like how can the client can ask me, how can I approach this and that person in my organization to show this or that? Because they know that we're working towards the same goal, but I'm referring to Simon Sinek every once in a while with his, you know, graph where he shows that

Josefine (06:06.625)
you

Johanna (06:31.357)
trust outperforms performance when you work closely with the Navy SEALs to understand how they pick out the top team. Where they show that if you can't trust a person, then performance wouldn't mean that much because they can fail you anytime. Whereas if you have trust also, that will be outperforming the performance. Not meaning that

I started up this call with highlighting that you need to be a professional as well. That it all starts with you being, with you knowing your stuff, so to speak. It's most important.

Josefine (07:15.17)
And you're a living example of that. I think you have the... a very unique balance of...

the just right amount of personality and like about being personal with your clients while still delivering value, being realistic, strategic and understanding all of those things. I think many people.

find it very difficult to do that? Because it's either, especially in a B2B setting, like you're very professional, very strict. And some, could also become a bit like strange when you're trying to be very personal and like, you know, then it's the, then that can be an HR disaster or whatever. Like, do know what I mean? So how does one find the...

the perfect balance of that. mean, where to where to go.

Johanna (08:16.592)
When, how do I know who to not invite to my birthday party? I mean, when you are in this beginning of working with a new client and you're creating this trust and deepening the relationship, you need to work a lot with asking questions, asking for their advice as well to create this, they feel important and that creates like a stronger relationship.

Paul (08:20.119)
Hahaha

Josefine (08:20.744)
Hahaha!

Johanna (08:46.021)
stronger trust. That can happen pretty early on in a relationship, I would say, to build this like they feel important to me and I feel important to them. And then after that, you notice or I notice that, hey, let's connect on for example, I did a confession on LinkedIn that I said that I

I confess I do talk business, for example, with my clients on Instagram DMs. Because, yeah, when you start to strengthen your relationship, it's easier to then just come up with a question like, Hi, what's your name on Instagram? What's your weekend plans? You're talking more about other stuff than just that specific transaction or goal.

Paul (09:42.29)
What do you do if a client isn't, or your point contact to a client isn't feeling that and the vibes are very much... Yeah, well... Yeah, all the negative connotations of that, yeah. Or just really business focused, like...

Josefine (09:50.136)
corporate.

Josefine (09:55.704)
You

Johanna (09:59.709)
They're different persons. So one is, it's not uncommon that we are when we're having meetings and other people are in the meetings also from their company. Or for example, when we write the emails and we know we have a lot of important persons on CC, then there's one language. But then if we have just like a one-on-one check-in, it can be much more non-formal. And I think that creates a lot of trust as well.

Josefine (10:28.558)
Definitely that creates a strong relationship.

Johanna (10:32.615)
Mm.

Paul (10:33.719)
As a team lead as well, there's times where you've done a lot more client-facing management than I have and client management than I have, with my role being more internal. But I've done a lot of line management and I can see some of the same challenges coming up around blurring the lines of, because we're essentially the client's employee as an agency. They're paying us to do a job, aren't they?

got any guidance that you or guardrails that you could share to stop say perhaps someone trying this trying to be more holistic with their client management and we've got any guardrails to sort of some hard lines that are like no that's that's a sign that things are have left the professionalism behind because like you said at the start that needs to underpin everything we are

you need to be prepared, need to be doing a good job, that's like a non-negotiable. So what are the guardrails for perhaps new account managers or new account directors who are wanting to have all the fun things and not go to stop them going too far and you know burning the bridges back by accident.

Johanna (11:47.047)
think it's a lot about having emotional intelligence and really read the room and read the person you're speaking to. Having great communication skills like for example there is an approach called feel felt found which means that you acknowledge the feelings of the person you're talking to. You share similar experiences and then

you present the solutions or findings from that experience. That can make the person feel like you build trust, you show that you have experience and that you're listening to them. And the person you're speaking to might even feel somehow that they're part of the solution, since they have the same feelings.

With that said, it's a lot about communication skills and emotional intelligence. And same goes with like if you're sharing need to negative feedback, constructive feedback or any tough discussions, you can share that also through like a third party story.

Paul (12:58.827)
What do mean?

Johanna (13:01.341)
Yeah, but for example, if there's constructive feedback, you need to share with the client. You don't want to blame them. You don't want to put them in an awkward position or hurt their ego. So delivering the constructive feedback as a third party story, this happened to me before, or a fictional story is much more...

soft to the client and they feel still respected because mutual respect is really important to not hurt any relationship.

Paul (13:38.424)
Prepping for this episode, it made me think a lot when we were typing the notes up around customer relationship and building trust. These are things we do in like romantic and friendship platonic relationships as well. What's the impact of your working week when you're treating client relationships this way? Because when they're in a good place, I imagine it's really good.

Johanna (14:06.629)
Yeah, I can get a text like, Hey, I haven't heard from you for a while. Why are Yeah. Or a lot of DMs and Instagram memes. That's every day from clients. And I mean, my clients are often C level high professionals. So it's not like they're still humans and having that relationship on that level. I value really high.

So my day-to-day work is like hanging out with friends, I would say. That's how it affects the day-to-day life.

Paul (14:42.611)
nice yeah it doesn't feel like work then Josie does it so no like that's one of the things we enjoy in our team sort of you can just it's not all not all work everything you talk about not being work i think just makes a big difference i think what do you reckon both of you sort of that's like i feel like that's kind of expected now and it feels weird when people do be just too work too work work work work work is that just me

Johanna (14:43.453)
Mm.

Johanna (14:47.431)
No.

Josefine (14:47.661)
No.

Josefine (15:12.658)
I think Johanna has found the little key to how to act professionally and still be relationship building human and personal with everyone, both colleagues and clients. And I think that, yeah, he's in the background. Sorry, eating. It's not me.

Paul (15:34.763)
Is that Kenzo?

You

Josefine (15:42.83)
Yeah, he's a I have a little bug Yeah, he's he's no he's a he's busy eating But yeah, I think that it's like I think many people still struggle with That balance and I think it's difficult to just if you're not naturally a sociable person or if you're not naturally I don't want to say people are not naturally emotionally intelligent like unintelligent but

Paul (15:45.291)
He's not coming on. He's run off now, has he?

Josefine (16:10.478)
Some people struggle with that. you're very business focused, know, up in your spreadsheets, all that, it's very easy to say something blunt to a client and go like, no, this is, hello, one plus one is two, you're in the wrong. But whilst putting your ego aside and, you know, comforting the client, first hand and they come first, the business will follow, like all the sales and everything. Like I wouldn't.

I wouldn't want to, you know, do a retainer with a company that would be very, like a square shaped, you know, it's all pre-decided, like what things are like. I would want them to be flexible for me. And I think that's what Joanna delivers.

Paul (16:52.151)
Mm-hmm.

Paul (17:00.759)
how do you find the time as a strategist or in our case you're a strategist but if you're managing client accounts how do you find the time to sort of make room for building the trust and the empathy and the relationship side of working together with your customers?

Johanna (17:25.959)
But say it's all about seeing every touch point and every type of connection as an opportunity to build these win-win connections and win-win outcomes, mutual success. That's key here.

Paul (17:49.662)
guess not that takes me that takes me to some theory or not even theory but sort of advice i really enjoyed years ago around how every interaction with your customers is a negotiation and if you can turn that everything into you can do it two ways you can go really cold-hearted commercial way which is like they have to fight for everything and feel like i'm giving them something every time like they've

Johanna (18:04.125)
Mm.

Paul (18:19.415)
that, I don't know, they ask for a meeting at three o'clock and I'm free, but I say let's do it at 3.15. Or you can do it in a softer way, which is more sort of what you were saying around reframing the same revenue goal as a soft goal and sort of, yeah, I can do it then and I'd like to.

rather than just turning up but letting them know that you'd like to meet at three o'clock as well and great news that I'm free it's like it's an added bonus it's kind of flipped the negotiation on its head in that circumstance but every little thing like you say can be an opportunity to build that relationship when it's

their latest idea or their boss has come to them and asks them to do something for you and you're helping them stay on track with the bigger goal and that's always going to be an opportunity to build trust with you isn't it?

Johanna (19:21.137)
Yes, mean, as you say, you can use exactly all of these tactics, if you call them tactics, but the skills, the emotional intelligence, the communication strategies to actually, as you said, negotiate. partnerships are dressed or, I mean, upsell and growth dressed in strategic partnerships, I would say.

That's what I wanted to say. So negotiations, also I'm the oldest one of four siblings and I have thousands of cousins and I'm, you know, I'm the oldest one. I'm used to doing this tactics also within my family. So, and also I have two kids. So speaking with them, making them feel trusted, important and how I phrase things and ideas.

undercover desk, you know, their ideas, but they're really my ideas. That's also

Paul (20:22.807)
I was going to ask how you stay on top of things like I was trying to loosely find some connections to a CRM but how you stay on top of things like when this is happening when it's their birthday with the softer side when when is it like their kids birthday and things like this but I imagine from what you're saying it's more just you don't view them as a work contact they're just somebody you know in your network so it'll just be natural of

Johanna (20:31.345)
Mm.

Paul (20:50.717)
How did it go at weekend?

Johanna (20:50.865)
Yeah, I will know if my client goes to the Alps over the weekend and then I can ask them the Monday after like how was exactly. Yeah.

Paul (20:57.559)
because you're actually interested.

Paul (21:01.835)
Have you ever been on calls where it's some sales rep and they come on and go like, Hi, Johanna. So it's been a long time since we last met. How is the conservatory coming along that you're building? Checking the CRM notes.

Johanna (21:16.317)
Yeah, exactly. No, I mean that wouldn't make sense. It's not about that. Then you're not succeeding.

Paul (21:24.983)
Absolutely not.

Paul (21:29.047)
Do you think pairing, thinking of our perhaps sales team listeners, do you think pairing sort of reps and client managers with personalities, have you ever come across that, like deliberately going, they'd be a really good fit, like go on, go make a success of that together.

Johanna (21:51.131)
Yeah, definitely. That's also something that's always on in my back of my head. These two people should meet or these two ideas should merge into one bigger idea and so on. That's always on.

Paul (22:06.391)
yeah i think otherwise it becomes a job again doesn't it and it becomes too transactional

Johanna (22:09.529)
Exactly.

Josefine (22:12.396)
Why do you think that so many others like find this so difficult? Like what's when you when you look at others, obviously the name names, but when you look at other companies or meet people, network it and you're like, hmm, okay, interesting. I mean, I'm sure you reflect on these things and like, I wouldn't have done that. Why do think so many people struggle with actually creating good customer relationships and like strong relationships?

Johanna (22:42.525)
I mean, you need to also be a little bit brave or crazy. I mean, I said that first of all, you need to be a effing pro in what you do, and then you need to build this relationship. And that is a skill that you can somewhat learn, like how to communicate with the clients and how to focus on soft goals and so on. But then you also need to be likeable and creative and personal. And that is like, do I dare to show that part of myself?

Do I dare to ask them for their Instagram account? Do I dare to ask like the CEO of our enterprise sized account for, yeah, ask them if they want to come to my party, for example.

Paul (23:24.758)
I think daring to be honest is part of that as well. So sort of when you think of new people managing customers for first time, whatever industry this is in, I'm thinking back to previous roles. If people try and bullshit their way through, their customer sees through it.

Johanna (23:27.74)
Yeah.

Paul (23:44.342)
and then the trust is gone so you're immediately all your results have to be up here then all the time your performance has to be up here all the time because they don't trust you and even if your results are there all the time you're hitting all your deadlines you're only one fuck up away from do you know what this is more hassle than it's worth

Johanna (23:44.999)
Yep.

Paul (24:03.863)
was benefit you not mentioned to think around trust being every everybody's human everybody makes mistakes avidly makes mistakes every other spot part of those every software does the do about product release whatever but when you got a human connection the summit for black on earth i don't know and i'm thinking of happy customers in the past to you mess up for and then they like not only i had probably contributed i should let you know about this and

It's like good friends, isn't it, rather than...

Johanna (24:34.087)
Yeah, we tried this that didn't work. mean, you need to own the mistakes as well and the situation. And then it's really important to remind yourself that consistency is key here. I've also been like working on clients, longer term relationships, and then you cannot, it cannot turn into too much fun and crazy stuff. It needs to also.

continue brewing value and being a professional and talk about strategy and growth. So consistency is key.

Paul (25:12.727)
Do you have any advice or things that you do or see people doing that helps turn their customers into advocates that shout about them?

Johanna (25:24.731)
I can sometime like in the beginning of a new collaboration, I can sometimes like, I feel like this can turn into a good business case. Then I say that directly to the client. I have a feeling this can be really good and I would love to create a business case. So let's document everything we do now and let's, you focus on building a really good case together. And that, you know, sets the standard that builds.

reports and relationship from the beginning. And that is a really good tip. Same can go for like, we're building a new website for a client and I feel like, this is such a beautiful website. as soon as we go live, I would like to shout that out to the world. Is that okay with you? So I already create that shout out for LinkedIn, for example, beforehand. I think three website launches.

2023 because that was when I last worked with websites resulted in a cake sent to me from the clients that had also the design on the top of it. So we're jokingly about Örjan creating or one of our designers creating cake responsive design. Yeah. So yeah.

Paul (26:46.839)
Nice.

Johanna (26:50.801)
Setting the expectations and not be afraid to set high expectations from the beginning because that kind of expectations you can set like let's aim for a really good business case.

Paul (27:04.695)
and stay in the open i think if you're if you're in sales and marketing getting your client facing side or your client managers your customer facing roles comfy with saying we want to share about you here we think this is going to be something special and then letting you know in sales and marketing that there's an upcoming upcoming case study

Johanna (27:09.661)
Mm.

Johanna (27:25.221)
Yeah, because with that you show that you're really proud of what you're doing and you're really going to put an effort on this. That creates the right expectations from the clients from the beginning.

Josefine (27:32.611)
Yeah.

Josefine (27:37.934)
So you need both the professionalism and you need to know your shit and be good at what you do. You can be that, but if you don't have the fundamental muscle to build good customer relationships and actually care about the client, they're not gonna retain, come back, be happy. And if you only have the good strong relationships, you're not really good at what you do. They're probably also not gonna come back, so you really need both.

Paul (28:09.077)
yeah that's i really like what you said as well to get to that place reframing kpi's and hard goals unlocking what is it about them that it actually helps is it enjoyment is it pride in hitting that number as simple as that or is it a knock-on effect that it unlocks

this growth or a bonus or and then that unlocks this thing personally and then you can there's a lot more interesting to talk about how close we are to getting that extra holiday or taking the kids to Disneyland than it is oh we're 84 % towards this year's revenue target it is for me anyway

Johanna (28:46.321)
Yeah, and also don't forget that consistency is key. If I should use the CRM for one thing, I would like to score professional input versus fun input and then see, because it's a balance really. You cannot fall into the fun trap because that relationship will only fade away.

Josefine (29:09.698)
So how would you use this theorem to do that?

Paul (29:09.919)
Nice.

Johanna (29:12.901)
Lead scoring? No, I don't know. I'm sure we can come up with a custom property.

Paul (29:19.169)
Do you do things like with, well, when, I know you're leading the team now, but sort of, I don't know, some sort of vibe check metric with your customer. So we do it internally. We follow EOS model, we do L10s as teams, and we start those team meetings with just where's everybody's mood at.

Just maybe last one, you ever had any sort of metric like that with a client that it's not finance related, it's not to do with deadlines, it's just how are we feeling that this is going?

Johanna (29:51.229)
Yes, I mean, I can document that myself, but it's not like I cannot measure it in my CRM. That's a good feeling. I need to feel like the vibe during the call.

Josefine (30:09.144)
You need emotional intelligence.

Johanna (30:11.053)
Yeah. Yeah.

Paul (30:11.127)
keeping that on your radar. Maybe give them bit of extra love next week because they're needing it and that's just a big part of its feelings. Josie, have we hit everything that we were thinking? It looks like it.

Johanna (30:17.874)
Thank

Josefine (30:25.454)
think so. Just on the last note, were the one of the you and Tereas Sutherland were one of the speakers at Aberdeen Activates, is an event that we hosted in the UK end of 2024. And you spoke a lot about human authenticity, your favorite word. Is there anything on there that you would like to highlight?

Johanna (30:43.613)
Yes. Favorite word.

Johanna (30:52.207)
Yeah, what we spoke about was human authenticity eats corporate BS for breakfast. And what we mean by that is that if you only do trying to be like trying to be a professional all the time, you miss out on so many opportunities, so many opportunities to build trust and stronger relationship and strategic partnerships. If you miss out on being likeable, being creative, being personal, the emotional intelligence.

Yeah. So you need to be human. You need to be present. Be yourself.

Josefine (31:29.57)
Well said.

Paul (31:31.959)
try and do that next week if you feel like you're missing something here and what your hand is saying resonates with you next time you're speaking to your customers or your customer service team is why not try being a little bit more human and a little bit more open to building not just a professional relationship but a professional relationship with empathy with trust and with a connection it'll your working week a lot nicer if nothing else

Josefine (32:00.182)
And you too will eat corporate bullshit for breakfast.

Paul (32:02.167)
nice nice one Johanna we'll round these tips up there's some nice frameworks in there that you've mentioned as well so we'll go back and pull those out Josie

If you've enjoyed this episode, be sure to leave us a comment on Spotify, a five star review anywhere else that you're listening. Please hit the follow button so you don't miss future episodes. We've got a run of guests at the moment talking about sort of sales and relationship building through from, sorry, from marketing to sales to customer service and how that, at the end of the day, helps us do more business with our customers. So we'll see you next time. Thank you, Johanna. Thanks, Josie.

Josefine (32:40.354)
Thank you.

Johanna (32:40.445)
Thank you.